Watertown's Open: Storytelling and Marketing for Solopreneurs

This episode is from a Watertown's Open event that happened back in late March 2026 over at the WCA-TV studios. The theme of this event was Storytelling and Marketing for Solopreneurs. We had a great conversation with a large panel this time. It was four panelists who were breaking down and giving advice to two featured solopreneurs who offered to be on the spot telling their perspective with what they're trying to do to with sharing their story. There was a lot of good advice in here. So if this topic is interesting to you, I think you'll get a lot out of it. Feel free to share with anyone else you think might benefit from hearing this too!

Watertown's Open are live podcast events for small businesses, and it's a place to get local business owners together to discuss topics such as this. It's a three-way partnership from Little Local Conversations, the City of Watertown, and the Watertown Business Coalition. 

Panelists:

Sam Dudley, Watertown Business Coalition, Director of Communications and Engagement

Margo Guernsey, Time Travel Productions, Director/Producer/Impact Strategist

Ashley Rappa, MORE Advertising, Creative Director 

Erin Rathe, City of Watertown, Senior Planner for Economic Development 

Featured Solopreneurs:

Heather Caldwell, Caldwell's Miscellaneous Fancy Goods, Founder

Benita Chelagat, Coffee Plus 254, Founder

Released June 5th, 2026

(Click here to listen on streaming apps) (Full transcript below)

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Thanks to podcast promotional partner the Watertown Business Coalition, a nonprofit organization focused on connecting local businesses and strengthening our community. Check them out at watertownbusinesscoalition.com.

Thanks to promotional partner Watertown News, a Watertown-focused online newspaper. Check them out at watertownmanews.com.

This program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency.

Transcript

Matt 0:02

Hi there, welcome to the Little Local Conversations Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Hanna. Every episode I sit down for a conversation to discover the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown. This episode is from a Watertown's Open event that I did back in late March. And the theme of this event was Storytelling and Marketing for Solopreneurs. I had a great conversation, large panel this time. It was four panelists who were breaking down and giving advice to two featured solopreneurs who offered up to be on the spot sharing the story of their business and what they're trying to go through with sharing their story and getting it out there. All right, so this was a great conversation. There was a lot of good advice in here. So if this topic is interesting to you, I think you'll get a lot out of it. Without further ado, let's just dive right in. 

Matt: 0:48

Welcome. Thank you everyone for coming out. This is the Watertown's Open panel for Storytelling and Marketing for Solopreneurs. This is part of my podcast, Little Local Conversations, and it's also in partnership with the Watertown Business Coalition and the City of Watertown through Erin as the economic development office. Thank you for Watertown Cable Access for hosting here in their lovely studio. And I actually have a sound guy today. Thank you, Dan, back there. Usually I just hit record and I'm up here talking and I'm like, I hope the audio came out okay. Today we're gonna have, gonna try and keep us tidy as we go through this, but we have a lot to talk about about storytelling and marketing. So I'm just gonna go through. I'm Matt Hanna, by the way. If you don't know me, hello. And then we can go down and just give a brief introduction about your name, briefly what you do.

Ashley 1:31

Hi everyone, I'm Ashley Rappa, the Creative Director of Copy at More Advertising, which is a social marketing communications agency based here in Watertown. I also have a shockingly long amount of time and experience as a freelance writer. So I do branding and personal storytelling and brand storytelling for everyone from business leaders, entrepreneurs, big companies like Indeed. So runs the gamut, but happy to be here today.

Margo 1:54

Good morning, everyone. My name is Margo Guernsey. I am a documentary filmmaker and I run a production company here in Watertown called Time Travel Productions. We do deeper storytelling. That doesn't mean it needs to be a feature film. It can still be a couple minutes long, but we do the deeper, sort of really bring you into someone's life type of storytelling. I also teach at Emerson College.

Sam 2:14

Hi, everybody. I am Sam Dudley. I'm the Director of Communications for the Watertown Business Coalition. We're a nonprofit organization here in Watertown that helps serves and represents local businesses in town. I have a brief background as a partnership business. I ran a business for five years and I'm just happy to be here.

Erin 2:32

I'm Erin Rathe. I am the Senior Planner for Economic Development for the City of Watertown. And I'll just say right now, because this will come up later, I'm sure, in the past, a long time ago, I owned a store, physical brick and mortar boutique that was American-made and fair trade gifts. And it was kind of a solopreneur. I mean, I had people who worked for me, but it was my vision and my store. So I'll be commenting from that perspective as much as from the economic development perspective today.

Benita 2:59

Good morning, everyone. My name is Benita Chelagat. I am a Watertown resident, Kenyan citizen, and I am here to bring more Kenyan coffee into the area. So I run Coffee Plus 254, plus 254 being Kenya's country code. I've been working on this for a little over a year now, and I'm happy to share the story. Glad to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.

Heather 3:20

Hi, everyone. My name is Heather Caldwell, and I'm the founder of Caldwell's Miscellaneous Fancy Goods. I live in Watertown, and I'm just so excited to learn today and be part of this conversation.

Matt 3:31

Great. Thank you, everyone, for being here. So we're going to attack this from two points of view today. So part of storytelling and marketing, first of all, is developing your story. And then how do you actually go out and share and market that story? So we're going to take each of these two solopreneurs separately. First, we're going to start with Heather, and we're going to go through with the panelists giving their opinions on how to develop your story and then how to share that story. So, Heather, do you want to give a little intro about your business, a little bit about what it does and your connection with it and, you know, the question that you have about developing and marketing your story?

Heather 4:04

Thank you so much, Matt. So this is my website. I sell antique-inspired stationary and gift wrap for modern women who have a Jane Austen state of mind. And what I'm trying to do is give them a moment in their very busy lives to pause and connect either with themselves or with a friend, et cetera, through using beautiful paper products. So that's sort of the in a nutshell version of what I'm doing. And in terms of telling my story, I'm at the beginning of this journey. I've been doing it for about a year. And I'm wondering how I talk about my credibility in the business so that my customers have trust and belief in me and what I'm doing without making my story too centered on myself. So somehow I want myself, my products to be all a reflection for my customers so they can see themselves. I want it, I want to hold up a mirror for them so they can, you know, appreciate their own journey. So how do you do that and walk that line? I'm really curious to learn more about that.

Matt 5:08

Great. So now, panelists, it's your turn. We can start with you, Ashley, about so what's your point of view on her story, but also in general about how to develop your story.

Ashley 5:18

Yeah, thank you, Matt. So I mean storytelling is tricky, which I think is why we're all here today to talk about it. I think first and foremost, it's really about sacrifice, which sounds kind of aggressive, but I think it's as much about what you say as it is about what you don't say. So curating your story, really getting to the heart of who you are, what your product is, what that is, is a helpful exercise for you, but it's a helpful exercise for your customers as well because they can easily get overwhelmed. I think my personal point of view on how you do that, because that's, it's easier said than done, is to think about it like this. At More we do on the social marketing framework to develop campaigns, which is based around know, feel, and do. So that's what we want essentially our campaigns to address. So the know is pretty easy. That's facts, that's what you do, who you are. The feel is a little bit trickier because you want to impart some emotion. And the do, hopefully, is clear, right? You want them in this case to purchase something or to engage or to follow.

Ashley 6:16

So I think with storytelling, people get kind of stuck on that first one, the know. It's like I want people to know this about me or this about my product or this about something else. But through our work at More and my own work, what I've really found is even more powerful is that feel piece. So it's less about facts and it's much more about feeling. And thankfully, there is research to back that up. There's a USC study that showed that people are two times as likely, so I think it was like 18%, would engage with rational advertising and more than double that with advertising that's about feeling. So it can't be any feeling. You can't like anger people or offend them or something. It has to be a nice feeling. So surprise, curiosity. Memory is a really big one. Those feelings go a long, long way in terms of people remembering who you are, what you do. It's a nice exercise to go through like what feeling do you want people to have after engaging with you? And I know it's probably just sort of like, I don't know, maybe it's the warm and fuzzies, maybe it's nostalgia. Looking at that, I have both of those feelings. So I think there's, you go a long way already. And then it's just realizing that you can sort of back into your story that way if you lead with the feeling first. And then how do you get there through the facts? So I think sort of inverting what seems logical and going with the heart before the head.

Matt 7:33

Yeah. And Heather, if you want to give a quick response to that, you can. Looks like you have a thought in your head.

Heather 7:36

I absolutely love that because I think that that's how I respond to things and to hear you articulate it so clearly, it's like, oh, that's right. It's really, it's all about the feeling and connection. I think this is it's stuff. It's beautiful stuff, but it's stuff. And for me, the rubber hits the road with people and how I want to make them feel. And that is really important to me. And I want them to feel delighted and surprised and engaged. And so thank you for sharing that.

Matt 8:07

Go ahead, Margo.

Margo 8:09

What documentary storytellers do well is the emotional piece. And that's where documentary lands differently than other types of news reporting or other types of storytelling. So, what I would share for you is two things. One, I wouldn't be afraid of trying to walk this line of, not centering your story. If you tell us your story, we will connect with you and we will see ourselves in you. So don't shy away from just telling your story as a founder. And so then I would say to get to that story, remember that stories, I mean, even if you go back to traditional storytelling, oral tradition, stories have characters. We say, like to say a person because we're talking about real people, not fictional people. So that's probably you, but maybe not. Have a setting, a world, bring people into that world. What is that world? And then something needs to happen. For us to connect emotionally, we connect emotionally when it's as humans, we evolve and we transform. So what we connect with is people overcoming challenge and transforming or having to overcome a conflict of some kind. Something actually has to happen for it to be a story that we connect with emotionally. Things that just are, like a setting and a character, can be beautiful, but that doesn't bring us in emotionally the way, the way transformation does. 

Margo 9:20

So I would ask you to think about what has happened to get you here, right? Of course, you have to tell the story often for a solopreneur in particular, in a very short format, right? So you have to figure out how to get to that transformation very quickly. Here's who I am. This is my world, couple sentences. And then what is the transformation? What has to be overcome to get to this business or what transforms your customers? Or you can enter that in a lot of different ways. But I would encourage you to not shy away from that aspect of telling your story.

Heather 9:49

That is very reassuring. Yes, it's so much food for thought because I think about the transformation. And I think the instinct, especially with social media, is to show, you know, very lovely, curated, sort of not the messy middle part, but show the beautiful after, you know, and like the before. So figuring that out and how to do that, that's given me a lot of ideas. And I want to give my customers permission to also be in that place as well. 

Margo 10:18

Yes. That's how we, exactly. That's where we feel seen, right? We know that our lives aren't just pretty, right? So let us feel seen also.

Heather 10:24

Thank you so much.

Sam 10:26

I echo both of what you had to say, but knowing your why. I think a lot of people have a lot of ideas to go into business, but it takes a lot to actually start that and get into it and stick with it. And that's something that's very hard to do and it changes over time. And so I think knowing your why and knowing your clientele and your customer base inside and out is necessary, needed. And you have a very beautiful and very unique business that not a lot of people would know or think about. So I think your clientele are people that, they want to take the time to put the thought into the gifts that they're giving. You know, anyone can go down to CVS and get a $5 thing of wrapping paper. But so you have that unique connection to your customers. And so I agree that I think putting you and your story and your background and your context is important for your customers because they will feel that connection with you. They likely have something that's very much in common with you. They're literary-minded, they love Jane Austen. And so going into it, you already have a very unique connection, perspective with your clientele. From there, it's just connecting with as people and as a person and showing that to your customers.

Heather 11:30

That is, that's really beautiful. And I think they always say, and like, again, these different business classes I'm taking, like, talk about your why. But I think getting to that, that really is the heart of it. Because as you say, it is so much work and energy, et cetera, and saying, why am I doing this? Because when things are easy, you can just keep rolling. But when things get more challenging, then you have to really go back to that and say, okay, anchor myself in that. This is why I'm doing it. So that's really helpful. And I'm trying to think of ways I can incorporate it in the different places that I have to do marketing with my website, email, newsletter, social media. So thank you. 

Sam 12:07

And I think knowing your why, that is something that's said a lot and shared a lot with businesses, and it can almost feel over said or overdone sometimes. And so, and as someone who had a business kind of going into it not knowing the business side of anything, which is, I think also with a solopreneur, people have these ideas because they're passionate and they love it. But then the actual business side is like, oh my goodness, what am I doing? And so that can be unsettling. But just like you said, when you have that base yourself and that understanding and knowledge of why you're doing it yourself, what it means to you, in those difficult moments, in those, like, oh my goodness, what are we doing? It's not working. This doesn't really feel like it's working. You can go back and use that as reassurance for yourself. And then you can also share that in your process. You can share that in your social media. You can be honest with your customers on your website and in your social media and all of your communications.

Heather 12:50

No, I think that's so true. And we all, as you say, like with the storytelling, we all want to see people overcome the difficult pieces, et cetera. And the why is a really good place, maybe to incorporate that part of storytelling. So this is so awesome. Thank you.

Erin 13:08

I don't have a lot to add because these are all really great things that I also would have said. But two things I wanted to add. And one to Sam's point, what I found in my store was that people went into their new venture. I mean, for a lot of people, it was a career pivot, as it is for both of you, right? They had a skill, they had a passion, they had something they wanted to do. They didn't know the business side of it. I certainly didn't when I started my business. So, first make a plug that that's my favorite part of my current job. If you need help with your business, please talk to me. That's what I get to do with economic development is to talk. And I have sat down with both of these ladies to talk through their businesses and how to get to know Watertown, how to get to know your audience. 

Erin 13:52

The other thing I wanted to mention that Heather, I think you do very well already, and maybe you don't realize it, but you're creating community. And I know you are as well, Benita, but you do that. It already comes through when I look at your Instagram posts and you call us dear ones. I love that, right? You've brought us in, and the choice of words is specific. Calling a group dear ones is straight out of a Jane Austen aesthetic. It's very much in line with your branding. It's also very clear that it's authentic to you. It doesn't come across in any way as a posture or something that you're putting on. It's not artificial. This is Heather. This is how Heather talks to us. And we are part of Heather's community. And when you say that, it makes us feel, feel, part of your community. 

Erin 14:40

So I think leaning into that, leaning into who we are, it's also another way of decentering yourself when you feel uncomfortable talking about yourself. Because that is a very difficult challenge for most solopreneurs, is I don't want this to be about myself. Or I don't want to give away a lot of personal information either, right? I don't want to feel like people now know everything about me or I'm oversharing or something like that. So creating that we of community, I think really helps with, you know, we is a first-person pronoun as well, but it's a collective first-person pronoun. There's the, my English teacher background is coming out. That's the other big chunk that I, another big chunk of my career was teaching freshman college writing. So, but yeah, and I think you are doing that very well already.

Heather 15:25

Thank you so much, Erin. That means a lot to me. And I love my customers so much. And I think through social media, especially, there can be, of course, downsides and upsides to all of these different tools that we have at our disposal. But I've met so many like-minded souls all over the world. So I literally feel like I have friends everywhere. And we appreciate these sort of quirky, unusual things. And that is a real bond. And I just want to spread kindness and joy and have people really feel that, I've thought that since the minute I started my social media, is you have to start how you want it to evolve, et cetera. And I've had such a good experience on it. And I think, again, sort of energy you're putting out can hopefully sometimes draw in the energy you'd like to activate for your business and your clients and all of that good stuff.

Erin 16:18

We can talk, and some of us even were talking before we started the program about, you know, there are pitfalls to social media too. We all know there are downsides and things like that. But I think one of the best things the internet and social media in particular has done has been for niche interests to not seem niche. I mean, I'm a weirdo and I felt like a weirdo all through high school and college. And when you know that there's a community out there that is just as weird and into the same really niche things that you are, it feels great. For someone who has not felt like they're part of a community before, bringing them into your community is amazing.

Heather 16:54

It's so validating for all of us. I think it's validating for me as the person selling and designing the things. And I think it's validating for my customers. They'll say things like, you saw inside my head, how did you know that this is what I always wanted, but could never find? Things like that. That feels like you're like, okay, something's going well. And that's such a great feeling. That synergy, I think, is what we're all looking for in community and as entrepreneurs, et cetera. So thank you.

Matt 17:23

Before we move on to the sharing side of the story, Heather, was there any other question based on those that you feel like you've struggled with developing your story, or do you feel like you got everything you needed out of those conversations there? I mean, not everything. We didn't solve everything in this, you know, 10 minutes here, but you know.

Heather 17:39

This is it's so, I can't even describe what a privilege it is to hear these incredibly talented, interesting people talk about their profession and also sort of their journey in getting there and sharing that. So that means so much to me. And I feel like just hearing what they're saying, I'm it's gonna take me a moment, Matt, to synthesize and sort of figure out how to move forward with it. But I am filled with so much gratitude and I love Watertown, and I just feel like, ah, this is amazing. So that's where I'm left with after that first go round. 

Matt 18:12

Great. Just wanted to check in.

Heather 18:14

Thank you.

Matt 18:15

Great. So now we'll go through and we'll do. So once you have your story kind of developed, how do you actually go about sharing that and marketing that? Why don't we hop down the line? Why don't we start with Margo this time?

Margo 18:28

I come to this having had a community organizing and union organizing background before I became a filmmaker. And so my approach with all of my films, which I'll share here because I think it applies very much to solopreneurship, is very grassroots. So you bring people together who are like-minded, who care about what you're doing, and you ask them to share. Right. Honestly, that is really where, and that's part of I think what the beauty of what you do, Matt, to be honest, is it brings us together. We may then later share online, but we're in person now. That can go a long way, even in a world that's online, because we relate to people and we want to share each other's stories. So I would start with leaning into your community and asking them to share what you're doing with other people. 

Margo 19:12

And then backing up to your own story, because I come in from the little bit of the deeper storytelling side. I would encourage you, and we do this with a lot of our films where we have newsletters and statements and that you have a longer, a little longer, might be one page, but sort of a longer statement of your story, your founding story, your, right? And then there are pieces of that that you're constantly repeating. Like the dear ones reminds me of that. But with one of our films, we were constantly reminding people about how the legacy of the story. I'm not going to go into the rabbit hole telling you the whole story, but the legacy of the story resonated for a very specific reason and how carrying that forward was important. And we just had a few sentences about that that I would re-rewrite slightly, but it's really the same thing with different words. In everything I do, every time I talk about the film, every time I pitched it, every time I write about it on social media, every time I email about it. And it's really the same kind of thing again, but it's drawn from the founding story. It's drawn from the initial why. So that people who have been fans for a long time are reconnecting again with why. So they're coming to us for, you know, whatever reason, but they're reconnecting with the why that got us here in the first place.

Heather 20:18

No, I think that is so very true. And I have a part on my website where it's saying this is my, you know, it's a little summary. And then it's if you'd like to learn more about my story, click here. So I don't want to inundate people per se, but also let them access all that because I think people do enjoy the story and I love telling it, but I just want to make sure, again, walking that line between saying too much and saying too little. And I think I don't know. And to be honest, I don't know if that's like a gender normative thing, if that's maybe women maybe more challenged with that. I'm not sure, or just a personality thing, being a little more shy. I'm not certain, but I love talking about it. I just want to make sure I don't do it too much. 

Heather 21:01

Because I want to share all those pieces of myself with my people. That's the other part. Because I was a librarian. I'm all about like educating and this. I love sharing my knowledge. And so I started talking more to my Instagram, like making little videos. And those always get the most views. I don't care how gorgeous you think your products are. People want to buy from people, they want to talk to people, they want to know who they're buying from. And then my dad at first was like, what do you mean you have friends you've never met on Instagram? And I'm like, but you know so much about someone, the way they're presenting themselves and talking about themselves. It's amazing how much you get that feeling through this medium. So it's that piece of doing these little videos. I've gotten so much more comfortable doing it because people love it. And it's just a way to put faces and names and all those things together. So thank you for encouraging to do that.

Sam 21:54

So one of the things I always think about is finding an authentic voice for your business, then making sure you utilize that across all of your communications and all of your different mediums. But you also are just such an incredibly warm and authentic person yourself that it, at the very least, from an outsider's perspective, it comes across very naturally. It seemed to come across very naturally. And so when I was looking through your website, I liked that balance you had of here's a little bit about me, here are the high-key details that someone doing a quick scroll can understand and understand where that connection comes from to your business. But then you're giving them the option to learn more if they like to. That's an important piece when you're thinking about marketing, is we have all these tools. You know, we have a website, you have social media, you have either email marketing or email communications or in-person communications. And it's important to find that authentic voice so that stays consistent. But each one of these tools has a different purpose. 

Sam 22:42

And so your website, yes, you want to have your personal details and your connection, but that's also where people go specifically to look for what your products are and what you're selling and why. And then you can use your social media to do a little bit more personal connection and communication. It's not terribly surprising, but like important that you are seeing, and I'm glad that you're seeing that those videos are doing so well for you on Instagram because like the theme has been people care about people. And we're looking at community in a different way as the world of social media grows and it's outside of our individual here at home communities. But yes, seeing those different types of tools that we have and understanding what the purpose is for each one of those. And because you're such an authentic person, you know, warm person that carries over through very well already across your different channels.

Heather 23:26

Thank you so much. That is really kind. And I think I try to make sure when I'm looking at the different marketing pieces. So whether it's my blog, my email marketing, my social, my website, making sure that if you looked at those things, you'd be like, yep, that's the same person. That's Heather. Yep, that sounds like Heather. Okay, good. So that I think is super critical to have that. As you say, while acknowledging there's certain aspects of each of those you can play with because there are different ways of getting in touch. But I've got a long way to go in doing that. But I am trying to think holistically about that ecosystem and how it can work for my business in supporting my customers in their journey, et cetera. So thank you.

Erin 24:12

I'm gonna go for some very practical, how do you share advice. One thing I always tell people is don't think that you need to be on every social media platform. If you don't have, you do have beautiful visuals. But if you don't have something visual, then don't be on Instagram, right? Instagram is all about the visuals. Pinterest, because you know where you're again, we know who this audience is. They're probably on Pinterest. That makes sense for you. To be on Twitter or X, unless you want to keep up with something frequently, it's a constantly churning ribbon of content, right? And so if you can't be constantly entering that conversation, then don't try. So that's my very practical advice. 

Erin 24:55

And you know, to echo what Margo and Sam already said, paying attention to what is working. It's very smart that you've seen where the engagement is. Always make sure to tag any partners you can as well. I mean, that's one of the things I do with the city's economic development social media is, the metric I care most about is not did we get more followers or how many likes did we get, but rather how many people saw this. You know, on average for us, I would say we get maybe 80 or 100 views on a typical post. But then when I see a post that got 1,500 views, it's like, whoa, what was it about that post? That obviously that really connected with somebody. And usually it's because I have tagged a collaborator or contributor or even just a partner who has a much, much bigger audience. And so paying attention to that kind of a metric will help a lot.

Heather 25:50

No, I think that's really true. And sort of leaning into the things that are working because in my role, I want to be of service to my customers. And so, what are they telling me that they enjoy? So, looking at emails, looking at the subject line, there's so many ways we can find the data and analytics that help us get to that emotional connection that we want to make. So, really using both sides of that. I've really enjoyed learning about that more as I've learned about how to run the business side of it. I'm like, I know how to pick pretty pictures, but you know, all the other things I've been, I told my mom it's not a learning curve, it's a perpendicular line, you know. So, but that part is what makes it really fun and interesting. And I think, like you say, lean into what works. I'm exploring Pinterest because I think it is very visual. I think a lot of my people are probably on Pinterest. And so that's a frontier I'm looking into in addition to Instagram for that part of social. So thank you.

Ashley 26:50

Good job, everybody. You said excellent things, all of which I was going to say. I have some very specific thoughts about you. One, it seems like you have already curated this community. You already understand your audience, you're already practicing empathy, all of which are very smart and important things to do. But it seems like with your business, storytelling, well, storytelling is an exchange, right? You tell your story, your audience listens. But I also think storytelling can be a two-way street if you engage, like tagging's so great. If you engage more with your audience, if you ask them to tell you their story, I think then it becomes something special, something different. And it may seem like that's not necessarily about the product, but if it is about the community and the people feel seen, then it does become about the product. I also think just looking at your stuff, your products inherently have stories themselves. They're so unique, they're so curated, they're so sort of enmeshed already in existing stories that I do think there's an opportunity for you there to really almost personify your products, right? Everything's a character, every story needs a character, every story needs a conflict. 

Ashley 27:57

And then this is sort of a B to that A point. But you're also operating in an adjacent literary space. So if people already understand the stories that you're referencing in your products, if they already get the universe in which you're operating, I do think there just might be some fun opportunity to really leverage. I mean, I'm don't plagiarize, but to like leverage the stories that are already happening and the narratives that are already happening and beloved characters or beloved scenes or something like that. I just think there's a lot of opportunity in what you've created to really make that like, yes, make it about you, please do. We love you, you're great. But also I think there's an interesting other pathway that you could pursue in terms of bringing those to life.

Heather 28:38

I absolutely love that idea. And I think it would be so fun. I'm already thinking I've got a pattern that has seashells. And you could talk about like, is this what you know, this character in Persuasion saw when they were at the blah, blah, blah? Because people look at my stuff and they either say Jane Austen or Bridgerton. They're both like Jane Austen, Bridgerton. And so the Bridgerton piece I love. It's very much more the like pop culture piece. And then the Jane Austen piece, I think ties into the literary piece, which is more aligned with my background as a librarian, et cetera. But I love all of it. I'm like, I read the book first and I'm gonna go see the new adaptation of Wuthering Heights. Like, you know, I'm gonna do both, both and. 

Heather 29:16

But I think you're right, like leaning into that piece for the actual products because I think these things are so evocative. That's why I love them. But also hearing stories from my customers and clients, and they send me a lot of pictures. I keep a whole part on my social media of testimonials and showing what they're doing. I always am putting them in my stories, things like that. And it's amazing to me how creative they are. It is just wonderful to see your products take on a life of their own with your customers. So thank you.

Matt 29:50

Great. Well, with Heather in total here, is there any loose ends to tie up here from anybody that you feel like we didn't dive deep enough in? Or do you feel like we've given Heather enough stuff to fill her brain for a while here? If not, that's totally fine. Just putting it out there. Always like to check in. Good.

Erin 30:08

I think we're good. 

Ashley 30:08

Yeah, we're good.

Matt 30:09

All right. 

Heather

You're the best, Matt. Thank you for checking in. This was awesome. 

Matt 20:13

So before we move on to the second half with Benita, though, because sometimes people have questions for the first half, and then by the time we get to the very end, they're like, I forgot it. Does anyone in the audience have any questions? I might take a couple questions for Heather's half of this conversation. Checking in with you guys as well.

Speaker 30:29

So, Heather, have you ever considered putting it on Etsy?

Heather 30:33

Yes. So this is a really great question, and it's very interesting. So what I'm currently looking at is I'm sort of building on my own real estate, I guess, which is having my own website. Etsy is an amazing platform and you have access to so many people. I think the complicated piece of it is that it's quite a saturated marketplace at this time. So I'm trying to drive people to my website so that they'll be in that place. Etsy is great. It aggregates things, but it also can send you down these other little bunny holes. I've heard people say that they really enjoy it and other people getting off of it for their changing fee structures, et cetera, et cetera. So I think it's something that is a great option that's out there. I don't know if it's something I'm gonna avail myself of right now, but I appreciate that idea because there is something powerful about these, I'm gonna call them like a dealer aggregator. There is something powerful in that. And people might discover you who otherwise wouldn't. 

Heather 31:33

And so a place like that that I'm looking at, because I'm gonna be pursuing wholesale, it's called Faire, F-A-I-R-E. And it's a place where wholesale people can go. And again, it's quite a saturated marketplace. It's become popular very, very quickly, but it's a way that people might be able to discover you. And because I'm so small right now, I'm being discovered, but you want to find ways where someone else's audience can discover you. So with wholesale, I'm hoping that they find me on someplace like Faire and then share me with their customers, who then in turn learn about my brand. So thank you so much. That's a great question.

Matt 32:06

Yeah. Just a quick follow-up. Something I do see successfully done by some people is they'll throw like five of their products on Etsy, not their whole thing, just as like a draw them in for their whole catalog.

Heather 32:15

And that's and that's a great idea too. I like that idea very much, right? You don't have to have your whole catalog there. Same with wholesale, exactly, Matt. I think that's a really good point.

Speaker 2 32:24

Thank you. My question for you is that you just kind of mentioned partnering. And what's coming to me is creating a live experience. Have you thought of that? Where you're bringing people into your world, and there's other businesses or et cetera, to do the cross-promoting, but that's a really nice way of introducing without putting all the pressure of just on yourself, creating that experience. But it is unique, it is whimsical, it is bringing someone somewhere. And it ties into that emotional key point that panel had mentioned as well.

Heather 32:53

I love that idea because I'll be honest with all of you. I'm a people person. I love being with people. I love being in person, face to face. There's nothing like it. No social media, I don't care what it is, I don't care how good it is, is ever, ever, ever going to replace that in a million years. And so creating these special experiences, I think is a great idea. I'm working with a group called the Retail Playground, or Up Next, it's Allison Yee who runs it. She's amazing. She's in Newton. And she said, you know, Heather, if you wanted to do an event in our little space here, you could do it. I just met an entrepreneur who's doing wine and chocolate. Come have wine and chocolate. And then, you know, we can write some cards, we can wrap some things, you can bring your favorite book. We'll make a little book jacket for it using some of these papers. I'd love to tie into different stores. And people could maybe buy a book at the store, buy my paper, and I can do a little workshop of how you can either wrap it or make it really special for someone in a very easy, quick way. So I think that idea of collaboration is really important and it covers, as you were saying, it checks so many of the boxes. And it's just a lot of fun too. I think there's, again, there's absolutely nothing like it. So thank you for sharing that. I think that's a great idea.

Erin 34:09

I would be remiss in my job if I didn't mention that one of our other businesses in Watertown, Gore Place, has been doing a lot of regency events. They've had tea parties, they've had a regency ball. So, again, another piece of my job, I'm always happy to connect you with contacts and to help with those kinds of collaborations. I think that that could be a really amazing add-on to something that they're doing. And it's beneficial then to both of you, right? They are also constantly trying to think of how to bring new people in and give them a different experience. And we've done the tea party before. What's different this time around? So, in both directions, that could be really beneficial. 

Heather 34:48

Thank you so much, Erin. You know I'm gonna take you up on that. I think that's fantastic. And I think having something be a win-win is always the goal, whether it's with your customer or with new people you're meeting and connecting with. And I think doing something that's gonna be fun and interesting for folks. I love teaching and I did a lot of that in my job as a librarian. And so having an opportunity to share that with people, again, would be so much fun. And, you know, something like this, like these images are straight out of that world. And I think that's such a fun piece because I think sometimes folks think like, oh, the past was all sepia toned and whatever. And it wasn't. They were bonkers, they had these crazy colors and whatever is very vibrant, very bright, and something that we could all still really relate to and making it immediate is what someplace like Gore Place is trying to do. They're trying to make history feel immediate and relevant. And I think that that would be a fun add-on. So thank you.

Matt 35:42

Great. Well, thank you, Heather, for being our guinea pig, our first guinea pig today. Now we're gonna move on to number two here. So, Benita, do you want to introduce a little bit more about you and your business and how this whole storytelling and marketing is coming up for you right now?

Benita 36:02

Thanks, Matt. Before I do that, can I do a little bit of audience engagement over here?

Matt 36:06

Yeah, go ahead.

Benita 36:07

Amazing. Okay, so I said earlier that I'm from Kenya and I'm bringing Kenyan coffee into the area. So just by show of hands, how many people have had Kenyan coffee? Ooh, more than I thought. Okay, excluding the coffee I’ve shared. I noticed some people who've had mine. Okay, how many people have had Ethiopian coffee? How many people can name a region in Ethiopia where the coffee comes from? How many people can name a region in Kenya where the coffee comes from? Okay, great. How many can name a farmer that they've had coffee from? How many can name a Colombian farmer that they've had coffee from? Okay, great. 

Benita 36:38

So I ask all these questions because just going back to the beginning, I'm from Kenya. I mentioned earlier I'm Kenyan. Grew up in Kenya, had my first coffee, which was an amazing creamy, sugary Nescafe instant coffee cup. Because we actually don't drink coffee in Kenya. We are tea drinkers, milk tea with spices borrowed from a little bit of the British and Indian presence in the country. So we grow coffee, but it was introduced as a cash crop. So majority of the farmers who grow coffee in Kenya have actually never had coffee, even less so that they would have had their own coffee that they grew. So I went from Nescafe to moving to the US and like a lot of Kenyans who make the transition, it took moving to a different country to start to realize how Kenyan coffee is perceived, consumed, and talked about. And that was kind of the initial point where I got curious and wanted to learn more about the coffee that is actually produced from back home. 

Benita 37:28

So I came here, learned about coffee, went back home, started to interact with farmers, and eventually got to this point where I'm currently bringing in coffees from Kenya into the New England area and trying to showcase the range that we have. So the different regions that produce coffee, the different farmers who are producing these coffees, the different processing methods, and what makes Kenyan coffee distinct. All right, round two of audience engagement. For the people who've tried Kenyan coffee, do you remember anything that made it distinct enough for you to raise your hand and say I've had Kenyan? All right, okay. Gentleman in the glasses, sorry, I don't know your name. Would you mind introducing yourself as well?

Speaker 38:03

Hello, my name is Javier.

Benita 38:05

Javier, hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for being, participating. So tell us more about your experience with Kenyan coffee.

Speaker 38:11

I think for me, what stands out is it very tardy.

Benita 38:15

Okay.

Speaker 38:15

Tardy, and depending on how you make it, it can be very acidic.

Benita 38:18

Okay. Wonderful. Okay, great. Someone else wanted to, one more, and then I'll stop.

Matt 38:23 

I'm watching the clock. 

Benita 38:24

You're watching the clock, thank you. 

Speaker 2 38:29

I think there's kind of a lot of different like layers and then, but kind of like an earthy taste.

Benita 38:34

Okay. So thank you both for sharing that. That has a lot to do with a couple of things, the regions where the coffee come from and how they are processed. And I think that lends a lot to what you end up getting in your cup. And so my goal, as I said before, is showcase the range, bring the different coffees that we have. But another thing that I do is I actually do tasting experiences where I sit with a small group. I usually try to keep them small, max 10 people if I can help it. And we talk about for one and a half hours. So I can talk a lot. We go deep into coffee, Kenyan coffee. I mean, everything from did you know that coffee comes from a cherry or a berry to how it actually ends up being roasted and why it's roasted to bring out the tartness or to highlight the complexity in the coffee. 

Benita 39:16

So I sound like one of those people who's like really, really into coffee now. I can tell you the temperature at which I brew my coffee and all of that. And I said that I started from Nescafe. It's been a journey for me of just discovering the layers and layers and layers of Kenyan coffee and just coffee in general, and even more broadly, agriculture in general. I have spent time on the farm, worked with farmers, and have a lot more respect for the work that goes into coffee, especially because for a lot of countries, you only get one harvest a year. You have to work all throughout the year to get that one harvest. And then even after harvesting and like corn or wheat, for example, with coffee, there's an additional processing that has to happen before you can actually export the coffee. And so there's an additional risk layer that is added on there. I don't know if I remember the question.

Matt 39:59

It was basically introducing yourself and then how you're going about developing your story and marketing and what's your issues with that right now.

Benita 40:06

Amazing. That actually I was gonna say. So my vision is grand here. I want for people to recognize and appreciate the work that goes into the coffee, but also enjoy delicious cups of coffee. There are a couple of problems that I see happening. One, the average age of farmers in Kenya is actually quite high, 40s to 50s, and there's not a strong pipeline of young people getting into coffee. So we don't drink it, we produce great coffee, we have an aging-out problem. And so there's a need to develop a youth pipeline of folks who are able to enter the industry. Whether you want to be a farmer, you want to be a roaster, barista, whatever it might be, I see that as a gap that we need to address. 

Benita 40:42

And then the second piece is that I think it's even more pertinent now, inflation is happening, costs of production increasing, but coffee is an industry where there's a lot of middlemen involved, and the amount of money that goes back to the farmer is quite minimal. So a lot of farmers struggle to keep up with production costs given what they get. I'll share a short story. If you're a smallholder farmer who brings your coffee, aggregates with other farmers in a cooperative, depending on how that cooperative is run, you could get your payments once a year or twice a year. It's never, here, I've delivered 60 pounds of coffee giving my payment now. What is likely to happen is you'll get a log of all the coffee you've produced for the season and then you get paid later. It may apply to other models. I'm more familiar with coffee. I've spent more time going deeper into coffee. And so keeping up with the costs of production, having farmers get paid in a more timely basis so they can actually fund the work that they're doing on the farm is also another thing that I'm interested in doing. 

Benita 41:39

And then thirdly, who doesn't want to enjoy great coffee, right? So I would love to just showcase a lot of the work that we do. Most of coffee from Kenya in the US is from the central region of the country. And there's a push even by the local government to recognize and have more and more coffee further out from the central part recognized. And so that's also another thing that I'm trying to do. So there's many things I'm trying to do. And I'm not a coffee expert. I have learned, you know, from Nescafe to here. So now I have to tell the story. Do I tell the story of the farmer? Do I tell the story of this amazing coffee? Because why would anyone wake up and choose a Kenyan coffee over the multitude of coffees and the multitude of brands that exist? Boston itself has very reputable names, George Howell, a couple different brands that exist already. So why would you pick someone like Coffee Plus 254, right? 

Benita 42:24

And then we've talked about sharing the story of you. At what point do I bring in Benita as the person, right? I also do not enjoy putting myself front and center. I'd much rather focus on either the coffee itself and the quality or the farmers who produce the coffee. Those are my go-to. And then since we're talking about solopreneurs, you're also juggling all the other things that need to happen to actually operate and run the business. So on a day-to-day basis, maybe I drink coffee to keep my sanity and keep everything together. I'll say that. So it is a challenge to just be able to balance all of those things and showcase a story that will resonate with everyone and still allow me to stand out in a crowded market. And then there's also considerations of I have to figure out my market segments. There are people who want the most exquisite, rare coffees. And then everything in that spectrum to, I just need a coffee hit, can I get going? So I also have to think about the different audiences and think about with my grand vision that I have, where do I land first? And how can I grow to eventually get to that grand vision? So those are some of the things that I grapple with and honestly that I test with my website, with my Instagram. I've said I've been doing this a little over a year. The business has existed less than a year now. I'm constantly trying to test that out, see what lands, how I get my story across.

Matt 43:40

Great. 

Benita 43:41

I will stop talking now.

Matt 43:43

So you, so, Sam, you get the first stab at this.

Sam 43:46

I mean, that's incredible. Truthfully, I love that you're taking this business that you're interested in, that you care about, and you love, and that you want to grow as your own individual business, but also thinking back to where it comes from and where it stems from and how to sustain that. I understand the feeling of not wanting to put you as Benita in the center of that. And I think one way to go about that is all the storytelling still comes from you. So you're crafting how the farmer stories are told and how where the coffee comes from. And you don't have to necessarily put you in your face and front and center, but I think you already have your story with these ideas of wanting to grow this to your grand vision, as you said. One way for you to stand out is your passion and compassion for where the coffee comes from. There's a lot of coffee that's out there, but as you,  as everyone showed, no one knows where it comes from. And so utilizing the farmer's stories either in visuals or interviews, there's some really interesting ways and fun ways that you could go about sharing their stories of either using your website to take pictures and show exactly where the coffee comes from, doing interviews with farmers so people have the understanding of where it comes from.

Matt 44:55

Yeah. And just I forgot to reiterate that this first round through is developing the story. So if that helps frame your response here.

Sam 45:02

Okay, yes. From what I've heard, you kind of have your story already. And I like that you're using these individualized in-person meetups to talk to people one-on-one. But I think starting with one area of this and the rest will come. 

Matt 45:16

Go ahead, Erin.

Erin 45:17

Sam's right. I mean, it's hard to know where to start. You have so many wonderful avenues that you can go with this. I was sitting here thinking, even though I've spoken to you several times about the business and what you want to do with it, it hadn't connected for me yet till hearing it again today. One of the brands I carried in my store, it was a clothing brand, was a woman from Burlington, Massachusetts, Burlington High grad. She had gone in college over to Cambodia on a fellowship to study the fashion industry and fast fashion and disposable fashion and so on and so forth. And she created this brand. I’m seeing so many parallels with what you're doing, in every garment, she had the person who had worked on it sign their name. So if you own a piece of that clothing, you know exactly who made it. My customers loved hearing about that. So talking about the stories of the farmers, that's one way to bring it in.

Erin 46:11

But it also, I think wherever you can find the connections back to something more familiar for people, because Kenya, for most people in Watertown, is distant and unfamiliar. So finding the connections back, I mean, this lady's mother would come into my store and shop, right? So I'd be like, yeah, her mom lives right down the street and she's from Burlington. She graduated from Burlington High. My shop was in Burlington. So being able to connect those pieces and say it's not just something that's remote and happening half a world away. It's something that is connected. And maybe that's you. You are the ambassador. You are the one who has come to Watertown to further that story for the farmers. But I think wherever you can find, and I'm going to connect you with my friend Rachel, who started this brand, because now I see all these parallels. Because as you can hopefully see, I'm still very passionate about what I learned from her. I still want to further her mission because I learned all of this from her. So I think where we can all get ignited about your passion for coffee. I'm not a coffee drinker even, but I'm passionate about the project that you are trying to bring. Let's be honest. I don't care about the coffee. I'm not going to drink the coffee, but I care about, I care about you and I care about the farmers and I care about the process. 

Erin 47:31

The other thing I was going to say very quickly is never assume that people heard you the first time. I mean, even as I'm sitting here, like I said, we've had multiple conversations, and this is the first time I made that connection. You, and maybe Ashley can speak to this better because she's actually in advertising. But you know, they say it takes what, seven touches before people hear the message. So is sometimes I think we all feel like, oh, I'm just recycling this. And I said this already. And why would I bring this particular factoid out again? Don't be shy about doing that because we're constantly learning. 

Ashley 48:04

Yeah, that's great. You're right. It is, I think it is seven. I think it's seven times that people have to hear you. I mean, I think what you have going on, Benita, is so compelling what you're doing. It's a big story, and not all brands have that. That's a huge advantage. It also comes with its challenges for sure. So I think number one to me is this positioning challenge, right? Like every time you meet someone, you can't, I wish you could have that preamble because we were all riveted, but you know, you have to learn and have to do the work to distill that down. So I think for you, just getting the shortest possible, like a five-word story. I mean, how I do that, how More does that, how the business does that, is to get the full long story out, write it from the beginning. I think what your story has that's incredibly powerful is, I hate this word, a journey, right? So you start, you start with the cherry on the stem and where is it in the country? And then you go through the process. And I do think you should bring people through that process. The transparency to that process is really, I mean, I drink, I chugged a coffee right before I came here. I have no idea where it came from. I would love to know where it came from. 

Ashley 49:11

So I think go through that whole story, put yourself in that story, even if there's discomfort there. Because I think you are the original brand ambassador, although I do think you can curry a lot of other ones. I think all of us on here will happily be that. Yeah, go through the whole story, stem to cup, and then cut it in half. Write that story again, half the length. Do that as many times as you can until you get down to the littlest nugget of what you think feels, still feels resonant, right? If you can still feel yourself and you can still feel your story in that four-word, five-word little snippet, then that's gonna help.

Ashley 49:47

And then I think what you said about segmentation and audience and understanding that is also critical, super hard, but really, really important. I wish I knew more about the coffee industry. But I do think that there's something. I mean, I will drink a bad cup of coffee, but I would much prefer to drink a really good cup of coffee that I know is also doing good things in the world. We talk a lot about audience barriers, right? Like, what's the barrier to getting people to do it? I think there's not a ton, I mean, I don't know, price point, but I think other than that, the barrier to drinking something delicious that also is having an impact seems pretty low. Like I would sign up for that in a heartbeat. So yeah, I mean, it's a challenge, but I would start with just trying to get the story out on paper, do that H-A-L-V, halving, halving process. And then I think see where you end up. And sometimes it doesn't happen on the first try. You know, in branding, you kind of have to do that again and again and again. But I think you'll get somewhere good, pun intended, doing good and good.

Margo 50:41

Benita, I need to first understand your audience. Is your audience wholesalers or people walking into a coffee shop and buying their coffee?

Benita 50:48

Wonderful question. Okay. I'll try to take your advice into consideration, Ashley, and keep this short. All right, grand vision again. My grand vision is just to have sheer volume of Kenyan coffee. The same way we have avocados from Mexico, people will know coffee from Kenya. That means I have to move a ton of volume, and actually, volume will make most of the difference for the farmers. So there are grades to Kenyan coffee. We have a distinct grading system. There is the top grade AA. People have had Kenya AA, Kenya AB, Peaberry. Those are like the highest grade coffees. I'm starting with folks who are interested in those grades. So direct to consumer right now, with the online sales, I do pop-ups, markets, and then I do tasting events. So those are the people I first approach. 

Benita 51:31

Ultimately, I would love to sell green unprocessed coffee to roasters because that makes the most impact with the goals I have. And then also eventually serve more people in cafes, wholesale. Like I think about this as there's a trajectory and I'm landing first with direct-to-consumer because I can tell that story. I think it makes the most compelling story out of what I have. And in the background, I'm working on building relationships because the sales cycle and building trust with people who are roasters and all, I think that takes time. And also building relationships with farmers, because there's plenty of people who've gone to them and said, hey, I can get you better pricing, and then they never come back. So I also have to work that. And so my approach is to start direct-to-consumer, direct sales, and then grow into eventually having even the green coffee sold.

Margo 52:18

So what I heard for the first time makes me think that your, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that your vision is that coffee is to Kenya what wine is to France. So we think of Kenyan coffee as this very sort of top line thing.

Benita 52:32

Mmm, yes and. So if I'm a farmer, when I grade my coffee, the top grades are likely going to be maybe like 40%, if I'm lucky 50%. There's still another 50% that I have to, that needs a market, right? 

Margo 52:44

Okay. 

Benita 52:45

And so it makes the most impact for me to go and say, I will buy all your coffee, instead of saying I'll only buy 50% of your coffee, and then you go and figure out what to do the other 50%. So my ultimate goal is to capture 100%. But what I'm starting with now is technically, yeah, the I'll give you the highest grades as an entry point. And then eventually once I've built relationships, we can work further out to getting a place in the market. I'm biting off quite a lot, but I'm also patient and I'm looking at this as a long game and I'm willing to go the distance to get to that point.

Margo 53:17

So what I want to actually challenge a little bit is say that I think you really do need to work on distilling your story. You have so much going on that's amazing. It is too much to absorb. I think you need to figure that out. And I think one way you might figure that out is by bringing in Benita, right? Why you? Like, why are you doing this? It's not enough to be clearly, right, I think I'm saying something you know, but it's not enough to just be from the same country, right? We need to understand why. I don't know the market well enough to know if leaning into the quality of the coffee or leaning into the farmers' stories is better, but it is a crowded market. We hear about the Colombian farmers, we hear about the Ethiopian farmers, we hear about the Dominican farmers, right? It is a crowded market with similar stories. 

Margo 53:58

Something new that I started to hear is, you know, we in the modern society, we're very distanced from the agricultural process. We get our food from the supermarket. We don't know how to make our own food. In fact, we wouldn't survive as humans, right? Most of us wouldn't survive if we had to do that because we haven't, my grandma parents knew how to farm. I don't, and my children don't. I know how to garden, but it's not the same. My mother-in-law lives with us and she knows how to kill a chicken if she had to, or kill a turkey, but I don't know how. She's not passing that down, right? So we're very distanced from the agricultural process. So I think it's an add-on to bring us into that kernel and that. 

Margo 54:34

But I want to encourage you to tell your own story. As we talked about with Heather, you don't have to be front and center, but the founder's story and your vision and your why, figure out what that is and distill it down for us. This happens in film a lot where we have a little bit too much going on and we have to show it to audiences, and then we have to go back to the cutting room and we cut stories. We cut entire threads because it's too much for us to absorb. And it can come up in other ways and it can be integrated in, it's not that any of those truths aren't there, but I think knowing Benita's why, why are you doing this and really narrowing, figuring that story and that journey out? Who are you? What's your world? Why this? Will really help a lot.

Matt 55:12

I've had Benita on the podcast before. And when I posted that on social media, you got a ton of people who loved, who were followers of you, who liked seeing your face there, pouring the coffee, and hearing your story. So people do want to hear it. Yeah.

Benita 55:25

Interesting. That was the first time I ever put my face up. So you helped me cross that ledge. So thanks.

Matt 55:32

So let's go how can she go about marketing and sharing this once she winnows it down a little bit. So let's go through that. So, Erin, we haven't started with you yet.

Erin 55:41

Okay, I get the hard one. I think I agree with bringing more in about you. And I think in addition to why, Benita, the other question is why right now? What makes this an urgent issue? When you and I spoke, I wrote a little feature in the economic development newsletter about what you had shared. And even just from the conversation we had, there was too much. But it's exciting. It's exciting to hear, at least again for me. I know I said I'm a weirdo. I really enjoyed learning about just how the market operates and how bringing the beans to market, that there's a closed system and you have to be licensed to if you're not part of the central co-op, then you have to, all of that can be shared. That process again of how is this truly getting to market? And what is the impact on the farmers? 

Erin 56:36

Again, I think when we were listening to you talking about Margo's clarifying question about is it about the quality? And you saying, well, it's about finding a market for the other half of their crop. That's something to share. These things that, again, differentiate you from other coffee stories, because again, Margo's correct, we know the stories of, you know, around the world, coffee is a difficult crop to produce and different regions produce a different kind, and you know, the terroir affects the flavor and all, you know, things like that. We know those pieces of the coffee story, but we don't know the pieces in Kenya, and we don't know what the specific challenges in Kenya are, and we don't know things like half the crop is not going to be sold.

Benita 57:20

I'm gonna be scientific about this. I hear you. I hear you about that. I was gonna say just disclaimer before the farmers in Kenya come for my neck. So we have a central auction, most of the coffee gets in there. So it's likely that they'll send it to the auction, but then you're subject to whatever the prices in. But I agree, I take your point. I take your point.

Erin 57:40

But and that's the thing is I'm glossing over, obviously, and I'm not understanding the details. So don't be afraid to dig really far into those details. That's what makes it interesting and what differentiates it.

Ashley 57:52

Okay, I'm gonna yes and that because I fully agree that those details are super compelling little substories. This is gonna sound like blasphemy, but I think, I think, in putting your story out into the world, it is very important to talk about why you're different and what you do and all of those things. I think it's also incredibly important to figure out what problem you're trying to solve for your customers. So, as much as your story is key and likely will get people to knock on the door and buy the stuff, I think it's also, you know, an empathy exercise. So, do we know if your potential customers' biggest issue is they don't like the flavor of the coffee they're currently drinking? Do they feel like it's an empty transactional process? Do they want to have more impact in the world? We don't know. Some of that can come from testing. You can always just go out there and look. 

Ashley 58:41

But I do think that frequently there's this tension between when you're marketing yourself, you want to say, like, if I'm like, hi, I'm Ashley, I work at More, I really like words. If I put that out in an ad, maybe some people would be like, huh, I wonder what that lady's all about. But if I say instead, do you need help telling your story? Can I solve this problem for you? I'm willing to bet more people would engage. I mean, I don't know. Those are both bad. Don't do that. But I do think that sometimes it has to shift from who you are and what you're doing to who you're trying to reach and what they need. And sometimes that can get lost. I don't know. Try it. 

Ashley 59:15

But oh wait, sorry, one more point. The testing thing is really important. I don't know what channels you're using, or I'm sure you're looking at analytics and doing all that stuff. But an A-B test, man, is can be really, really powerful. The parameters are, as I think everybody likely knows, it just test one thing at a time, test the image, test the words, test the buy, the audience, whatever. Just test one thing at a time. And I bet you'll learn a lot.

Margo 59:35

Yeah, definitely what problem are you solving for your customers? So we're talking about sharing. There definitely is a public out there that would love to nerd out on coffee and loves to nerd out both on taste and just generally nerd out on coffee. I'm just guessing, without having done any market testing, that those are folks who are going to share what you're doing. So this part is about sharing. I would make very good friends with them and give them some tests, you know, maybe free samples, you know, invite them to the in-person. I think the in-person things you're doing, fantastic. Invite them, take lots of pictures to share on social media of the in-person testings, right? Really dive deep. I would encourage you to dive deep in sharing your story with that, I'll call it a community, I don't think they would identify as a community per se. I think a lot of folks could be in that group and not necessarily realize they're part of a community, right? And there's a lot of folks who drink a lot of coffee, like me, who might not have thought about nerding out on coffee, but I pretty easily can be convinced because I like to learn. And so I like to learn and I like to drink coffee. So I can put those things together pretty quickly if you offer me the opportunity to do that. We talk a lot in film about you really need to know your niche audience. Your niche audience will then share your film out with their friends and with their friends, but your niche audience is the one who is going to do the sharing. Other people will just be like, oh, that's interesting. So finding who that is and having them help you share.

Benita 1:00:53

I think you both make valid points. The piece that I think that takes time, I also can sometimes be impatient about these things, you know. I'm not sure if other people who are doing this feel the same way, but testing is a big part of what I do. It's kind of helped me try to narrow down on what market I'm trying to hit now. But I definitely need to do more disciplined A-B testing. It's just something I haven't prioritized, just juggling everything else. But I think I've done this long enough that I have seen trends and have hypotheses that I can, I think I can successfully test them if I'm disciplined about looking into it. For example, yeah, you said landing pages, like what I put on, what messaging I put on. I've continued testing and like actually have concurrent A-B tests that give me conclusive feedback on what is happening. And then just the in-person stuff. Nothing can take away the value of having people try the coffee, sharing the experiences, sharing what they know or don't know, because that's also helped me fine-tune a lot of what I do. That said, I'm inviting you, Margo. Here's a formal limitation. You can come in, I'll nerd out about coffee for one and a half hours and we can go deeper into it. Okay. Thank you.

Sam 1:02:01

Kind of going back to what we were talking about with Heather too a little bit is understanding the different marketing tools at your disposal. And so you have a wide-ranging story, which is fantastic. And you can use those different tools to tell different parts of those stories. I agree with everyone said that distilling down would probably be helpful at least in the here and now. But you can utilize your website to showcase and build trust about your coffee itself and put a little bit of yourself in it. But then you can use these other tools to also introduce the other aspects and the other pieces to it. Yeah, just utilizing those different tools and finding ways to thread that story in the different ways that they can support.

Matt 1:02:39

Benita, do you have any final last questions or thoughts to throw at them before we open up to some questions from the audience?

Benita 1:02:45

I think I'll need to make appointments with each of them. Yeah. But this is great. I appreciate it. I rarely get a chance to get my baby called ugly, and I actually welcome the opportunity to get outside of, the solopreneur world is, you know, you're by yourself doing this stuff, and it's great to have people literally. I want you to tell me how it's landing because in my mind, it might come out in one way, but in reality, it's landing a very different way. So it's great to have that input.

Erin 1:03:10

I wanted to follow on to what Benita just said. As a solopreneur, it's so lonely. You know, finding a community of other solopreneurs, you know, now the two of you are connected, right? Finding other people who are doing that is really important because no matter what the business is, you're going through many of the same stages. Finding your audience, crafting your story, figuring out the business side of things, failing at trade shows, all of those kinds of things, having other people to bounce those ideas off of is really, really important.

Benita 1:03:42

Can I just add on to that? My professional experience has been at businesses that are more mature, where some of these things are like, you know, you've tried it to some degree, but starting something from scratch, starting from the bottom and like trying to build trust, establish yourself is a completely different ballgame. All the theory in the world, I mean, it can help, but the practical piece of it is just something else. And so it's great to have the support of Watertown community, the economic development office, and WBC also, I’ve kind of leveraged them a lot. So it's great to have that as well. I'm not getting a commission for saying that, by the way.

Matt 1:04:15

Any questions from the audience?

Speaker 3 1:04:19

Thank you, Matt. It's not necessarily a question, more so, this is great, by the way, another great podcast here. So I would just say, I think just by listening to the two of you, I don't know if you know this or not, but I think you're both fantastic at presenting. I think you both come off really well. You're well spoken, you're warm, you're passionate about your product. Don't let that get lost in your process because as a business owner, sometimes you can get sidetracked. Again, I don't know if you understand this about yourselves, but from someone who's just been sitting here for an hour and a half, you don't necessarily have to try and sell. Your sell is your authenticity. I mean, I've been in a sales job for 20 years. The worst thing you can do is not be authentic and try and oversell. And I think naturally neither of you have that. So don't lose that. And I would just lean into that just a comment. But this was great. Thank you.

Speaker 4 1:05:13

Hey, thank you. Nice to hear your stories. I had a question about today's March 24th, I think. Yeah, today's March 24th, which happens to be National Agriculture Day. We might have already talked about it. I know that President Trump is doing some U.S. manufacturers and producers mission work with Vietnam and also some farmers bridge work where people who are doing certain types of row crops, certain farmers are getting payments this week. Are you affected at all by what's happening with the one big beautiful bill?

Benita 1:05:40

I cannot speak to that because I focus mostly with farmers back in Kenya. So I cannot speak to that at the moment. And also I'm right now working a lot more on product that's already been shipped here. So it's already in the country, and we're roasting it locally. So I'm focused more on getting that product established. Yeah.

Speaker 5 1:06:00

I think your story is quite beautiful. I mean, I know you were saying you don't like to put yourself at the center of the stuff, but I think you have to. Because you're the conduit to whatever, yes, you're trying to sell a product, but you're the conduit between the stories that you're seeing back in Kenya to communicating that to the audience here in the United States. You kind of have to show face a little bit. Because only you can drive that narrative. You know, maybe leaning into the process of it might be beneficial if you, you know, that's a way you could maybe have it be a little less centered around you as a person, but it still has to be you telling that to people and communicating that.

Benita 1:06:32

Thank you, Javier, right? Yeah, thank you so much. I'll work on it.

Speaker 6 1:06:38

Thank you. So with both of you, and I think for a lot of us, again, with social media, there's so much going on. So my question, I guess, to the panel, that will help all of us maybe is what are key elements to storytelling and like, you know, the caption or something that's gonna really be like scroll stopping worthy? Because we all have stories when we decide to actually speak on them and be visible about them. But how do we actually get the stop, so to speak, so that they hear our stories or they can support our brands or whatever we have going on? Because when you're in the business, there's so much going on. But yes, we do have to pause to be intentional about the messaging that's going to stop and attract people enough. And I say that because I at least know Benita and I just feel like it applies. And personally, for where I'm at with producing events, et cetera, it's like there's so much, yet this is so important. And how do we really maximize that and use it to our advantage? And when I say advantage, that sounds yucky. I really mean more so like to benefit the public because we are mission-driven. There's impact behind it. And how do we really get that out there with the multiple streams of media, et cetera?

Erin 1:07:53

I think it goes back to authenticity. And I know, Erykah, not to put you on the spot, but we were talking about this before the event started. The event that you're producing has a very clear and very authentic message. It's empowering women, it's giving back to the community, it's bringing women together, it's sharing space, it's about you and what you have to offer, but it's also about a collective spirit. For me, that's what makes me stop. We talked earlier about how when you're scrolling through, you see the perfection over and over again. And the messiness of the process, you know, Heather wraps things absolutely beautifully. But I think we all would love, not because we're not cheering her on, but we would love to see the one that didn't turn out right, right? To see the authenticity of, you know, I wrapped this four times before it came out right. That I think you can't scroll past that. When you are really authentically talking about whatever the topic is, whether it's your face or just your voice or just your ideas, when it's really coming from you, I think you just can't scroll past that. People connect with it intuitively, which makes it very difficult to capture. It's like lightning in a bottle. I can't tell you how to do it, right? Because it's authentic to you, not to me. But I think that people do recognize that. They gravitate toward it.

Ashley 1:09:17

I'd love to just add on to that. I think that's absolutely correct. I think authenticity is huge. I think it's the unexpected capacity, whatever that is. If you're used to seeing the curated feed and the perfectly wrapped little corners, which I'd love you to teach me how to do. And then you see something that does not look or feel like that, you're sort of like, whoa, what is that? Right. So there is a little bit of the element of surprise. The trickiest part is that it changes hourly. It's like what we say right now, even if you do that, that doesn't mean it's going to work. And I think that's a lot, a lot of what we do at More is try to really understand the science behind that. We work with only impact and mission-driven clients. So it really matters if we do this well and we get this right. And unfortunately, they're built for scroll, right? Like that's the purpose is to keep you moving. A purpose is not to get you to stop. That sounds intimidating and defeatist, and I don't mean it like that. 

Ashley 1:10:05 

But I mean if you layer authenticity on top of impact, on top of maybe, you know, something that makes you giggle, right? Gonna be the feeling police forever, I think. But if you can really take that second, get somebody to feel something, to recognize themselves in something, that's really sort of the secret sauce. Again, easier said than done always. But also just like don't be afraid to take a big swing, mess it up, right? What's the worst that can happen? You can delete it. It can, you just go away and then you try again and you try something different and maybe that works. I think there is this, we're all curating these little museums of our feeds and ourselves and our brands. And I think sometimes it feels, I mean, it is permanent. Don't do anything kooky, but I do think you can take a shot and you know, if it doesn't work, you learn something. I think that's sort of the only way to battle it.

Matt 1:10:49

Maybe one last question if there's any questions. Yeah.

Speaker 7:10:52

Just a quick question. I'm not sure it's going to throw us off into a tangent, but we're talking about geeking out on coffee and you can get a whole network there. But there's a whole network on health and wellness, if it's maybe organic or all natural or something that can make you even more distinct.

Matt 1:11:08

Yeah. Just a yes.

Benita 1:11:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, yeah, I agree. Before I launch into another 30-minute monologue, thank you.

Matt 1:11:18

Well, thank you, everyone, for being here. Thank you, all the panelists, for sharing your knowledge. Thank you, solopreneurs, for opening your business up to us and your stories. Hope this has been helpful for everyone here. Any last thoughts before. Erin, I see you.

Erin 1:11:32

I'm gonna make a pitch for A the visitor guide that the city just put out. If you haven't seen it, connect with me. And thank you very much to Charlie for putting it in the paper. That's one place you can find it. But I wanted to make a pitch for our next Watertown's Open series, which is two weeks from today, back in the studio. And we'll be talking about tourism as an economic driver, particularly around all of the events that are coming to this region this summer. You know, that was a big reason for doing the visitor guide that we did. But we also are gonna have some great panelists to talk about how any kind of business, no matter what your business is, there are ways to tie it to the tourists who are coming in. They're going to be here. So, how do we serve them? How do we reach them? How do we cater to them?

Matt 1:12:17

Yes. And yeah, that's gonna be in the same space. And yeah, gonna have a dining perspective, hotels perspective, gonna have cultural perspective, and then Steve Owens, who is the vice chair of the tourism committee for the state, should be a really good conversation as well. So yes, thank you, Erin, for mentioning that. And this podcast is being recorded, so this will be available later. Not immediately, but if you want to listen back to this conversation, it'll be on LittleLocalConversations.com and check out all these people and what they're doing too later on. So thank you again, everyone. And feel free to chat and get people's business cards or follow up with each other. So yeah, thank you, everyone. 

Matt 1:12:55

So that's it for the storytelling and marketing for solopreneurs panel. There'll be links in the show notes for you to check out information on all the panelists and Heather and Benita's businesses. If you'd like to hear more episodes of the podcast, you can head on over to LittleLocalConversations.com. If you want to hear more in this series, including the Watertown's Open Summer Tourism Panel, which actually I released that episode before this one, even though it was mentioned at the end as coming up. Again at the website, LittleLocalConversations.com, there is a listen by category button, and you can click on to the Watertown's Open and listen to all the live recordings from events for that series. And if you know someone who might benefit from hearing this episode as well, please share it with them. 

Matt 1:13:37

All right, and I want to give a few shout-outs here to wrap things up. Want to give a thank you to the Watertown Cultural Council, who have given me a grant this year to help support the podcast. So I want to give them the appropriate credit, which is, this program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency, which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency. You can find out more about them at WatertownCulturalCouncil.org and MassCulturalCouncil.org. And a couple more shout-outs to promotional partners. First, the Watertown Business Coalition. Their motto is Community Is Our Business. Find out more about them and their events at WatertownBusinessCoalition.com. And lastly, Watertown News, which is a Watertown focused online newspaper. It's a great place to keep up to date with everything going on in the city. Check that out at WatertownMANews.com. So that's it. Until next time, take care.