Creative Chats With Guest Kristen Kenny (A Discussion on Local Space for Artists and Musicians)
This is a recording from a series for the podcast at the Mosesian Center for the Arts called Creative Chats. This conversation was with guest Kristen Kenny, artist, arts organizer, and Chair of the Watertown Cultural District, where the topic revolved around finding/building/cultivating spaces for artists and musicians.
(Click here to listen on streaming apps) (Full transcript below)
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Transcript
Matt: 0:07
Hi there, welcome to the Little Local Conversations podcast. I'm your host, Matt Hanna. Every episode I sit down with someone in Watertown to discover the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown. This episode is a special live podcast I did over at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. It's called Creative Chats, I do it once a month, and this time the guest was Kristen Kenny, and we get into a conversation about creative spaces in the area. All right, so I'll just get into the conversation here with Kristen Kenny.
Matt: 0:34
Well, first of all, I want to thank Roberta for hosting us here at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. It's a great space which will be a topic of today, space for the arts. So really appreciate this space. We've got the nice Gorky exhibition behind us today, which is a great backdrop for this. And yeah, I'll just introduce my guest for today, which most of you know but some of you do not, and that is Kristen Kenny, who is chair of the Watertown Cultural District Partnership. And you're involved in the Arts Market. You're involved in Porchfest. Any other organizational ones that I should mention?
Kristen: 1:08
That aren't Watertown based.
Matt: 1:11
Yeah, go ahead. What other ones are you involved with?
Kristen: 1:11
I'm also the day of show manager for Earfull, which is a series that's been going on for about 20 some odd years and actually sometimes partners with Mosesian, and it'll be taking place in June, every Tuesday in June at Branchline. And Mosesian is our partner in this, in getting the staging set up, sound and lights and stuff like that. So yeah, Mosesian, Earfull, June, Branchline, every Tuesday.
Matt: 1:40
And also you're an artist yourself, sometimes.
Kristen: 1:43
When I can, yeah.
Matt: 1:45
So is there any other background information you want people to know about you before we dive into the topic?
Kristen: 1:51
Gosh, well before I moved to Watertown and it occurred to me I've been here for five years now, oh my God. And I had been living in Somerville for about 15 years, and then rents went up and people moved back that weren't supposed to, and so we were living in a family home of my husband's and we were asked to leave in a month's time. So in that house my husband had his recording studio. He's a voiceover artist and also a musician. I had studio space. It was quite large, whole apartment was about 2,500 square feet in the heart of Davis Square and we had to leave.
Kristen: 2:23
And we moved to Watertown into an apartment that was about 500 square feet and my husband and I tried to use a room together and when he had his voiceover jobs I had to go and sit on the porch. We had no space whatsoever. A year later we found another apartment a lot bigger. He has his own studio space and I've got nothing again. So I've been without working space besides a dining room table for six and a half years.
Matt: 2:49
And what is the type of art that you're trying to make that you need the space for, I guess we should be saying too.
Kristen: 2:51
Art that I can make a mess and not be concerned about my landlord's floors, walls, smells. An exhaust system would be nice. So I'm relegated to my old art of clothing design, which I can't seem to stop doing. I don't have enough places to go to wear all the things that I make. I had a men's clothing line for about 20 years and got tired of chasing stores down for money. I had stores in Europe and all over the United States and I had to get in touch with a bill collector to get paid for shirts I had made and sent to different stores. Yeah, I stopped doing that but still will make clothing for those who ask nicely, mostly men's clothing. But I still collect fabrics which you can't see on a podcast. But this is an item highly flammable, but wear it. Look at the colors. I've watched this a thousand times. I love this and men just don't want to wear this so I keep making things for myself.
Matt: 3:44
And because of space issues, what type of art have you stopped making?
Kristen: 3:48
Oh gosh. Ideas for installations, soft sculpture. I tried to carve a space out in our basement. Our landlady has been kind enough to give us an area in the basement where a washer and dryer is and I pushed all of my husband's road case gear and guitar cases and his mailers for the bands and stuff like that into a corner and I've started to collect things to put into sculptures that I've been thinking of. And then our hot water heater blew up. I had some things on my little desk perch that I was kind of like working and putting together and the guys came in and crushed it. So I didn't like the idea of people being in my space.
Kristen: 4:23
Well, you know, you want a little space of your own to create and you know, make mistakes and you don't want to have to explain to somebody, what are you making. And they crushed it and so I stopped doing anything after that. But I keep collecting items that I know will eventually someday be made into pieces that I keep thinking about and keep drawing these things. And they're big and there's a lot of fabric in them and there's a lot of branches, but they're big and they need a place where I can mount them and work on them and do a little bit of welding if I have to. Yeah, I don't have that.
Matt: 4:56
So why don’t we dive into our topic then, which is artist space in the Boston area,
Kristen: 5:00
Artist and musician space.
Matt: 5:03
and musician space. Well, depending on who you talk to, musician can be brought into the term artist. Capital A art or little a art, whatever.
Kristen: 5:10
Their spaces are slightly different.
Matt: 5:12
Yes, so yeah, let's dig into that topic then, because, handful of years, you've been in this area for a while and you know.
Kristen: 5:17
Oh yes, I've been in Boston since 1987 with a couple of blurps out of it.
Matt: 5:21
Yeah, so you want to talk about its current state and how that's shifted over the years?
Kristen: 5:27
So my chat today is about the lack of space for people to create things, whether it's music or art. There's Turtle Studios and that's great, but if someone like myself needs a space where they can get dirty and they don't need to take apart the artwork and put it away, that isn't possible. And over the past five years, rehearsal spaces for bands have dwindled. It's incredible. There were three that closed within two years of each other in Allston, Brighton, and Somerville. Some have reopened, but they're in the suburbs. So if you are what we call baby bands, who live in the general Boston area, there's no place for you to rehearse, there's no place for you to get together and play loudly or just create. New rehearsal spaces have opened in Woburn, Randolph, and places where, if you don't have a car, how are you going to get there? And then you've got equipment and whatnot.
Kristen: 6:21
We really have a problem with helping people become creative, and when you say that to people who aren't artists, they just kind of glaze over. Well, why would that be important? Well, because everything from your sneaker design to the jingle on the radio is created by artists, and if they don't have the space to work, you're not going to have that stuff, and I don't even want to get into AI. So this is what I'm here to talk and complain about. Also, the thing about trying to get artists space is I'm not looking for a handout, I'm just looking for somebody who can be creative with the large sum of empty buildings. Just in Watertown, we've got buildings that are privately owned and buildings that are owned by the city that are sitting empty. With a little bit of thought, okay and a little bit of money, you can turn these spaces into. You know, bands just need walls that are soundproof. Give them a 20 by 20 space, 20 by 15 space. I've been in band rehearsal spaces that are coffin-sized. It's grotesque.
Kristen: 7:13
Make sure it's air-conditioned and make sure that there are bathrooms. That's all these people need, and then you charge them a fee and nine out of ten times it's three or four bands renting that space and they schedule it out on their own. But whoever owns that building will make money and will get paid. Same with artist space. All they need is some light, and there's a couple of buildings in town that I just stand in front of every now and then and go. Why? Why are you empty? Look at all of your large windows. There's three floors here. Break that up into nice space. You have two and three artists again sharing a space, paying for the space, and all artists need is ventilation and a bathroom and some windows. Is that so wrong?
Matt: 7:48
So what's been the issue of that happening? Has those conversations been had with anyone?
Kristen: 7:55
I've had one talk with someone from Watertown. They're still trying to figure out what spaces are available, what's happening with it, who owns what. So, like everything else, it's going to take some time, but I'm looking to get the word out and perhaps there'll be a very philanthropic or person who'll go, I've got a space. I'd love to have artists and musicians in it. But maybe there is somebody out there who wants to help people out and wants to help a building and make some money on the side, you know, And actually I was trying to speak with someone, a private landowner in Watertown, and the ball's been dropped, but I'd really like to get back in touch with them, because the space used to be a rehearsal studios in the basement. What I've heard, they were really nice spaces and there was a bathroom. Did you have a question?
Guest: 8:43
I just have a comment. I think this is a fabulous topic and I know Liz has a lot to say about this too. It's been a problem that we've identified for many, many, many, many years, and it's only gotten worse because of the gentrification and the increase in property values. Thankfully we got this land 20 years ago, or we would not have it. Literally, this space we control inside the outside walls. We don't control anything beyond that space. So what I see that we need, and I'll try to articulate this clearly, on the one end of the continuum there's this illegal space.
Guest: 9:18
When I was operating over at the Arsenal Yards, I worked for that developer for a short period of time looking at creative ways that we could use the empty mall. If you remember, that mall was empty before it got redeveloped. The problem I kept coming up against, we had lots of space, but it wouldn't pass fire code, and so they couldn't open up that space and actually rent it out. And then the cost to actually make it occupiable was so high that we couldn't do it. So there were small little pockets. We had something called an innovation center, but it was really hard to carve out. And on that same continuum there's a person, who I will leave unnamed, who does something called craft day every year and she does a big, big, big, big experience where people come in for the holidays and they make wreaths and they make gingerbread houses and she brings food and she has this huge thing and it's been well established. But she does it in somebody's you know warehouse and they do it for one day and she has permission from them.
Guest: 10:24
You know whether that space is legal, you know, is unclear. It's just out of the good graces of somebody. So there's the illegal space. Once you get to the legal space, you have so many insurance issues and you know maintenance issues and what I face here at the Mosesian Center is, you know, opening the building and making sure that nobody's doing anything that's going to harm the building. Or you know ancient heating or air conditioning systems that are kind of touchy and the Wi-Fi goes down and all the building stuff. So it's actually a fairly complicated problem. So I just wanted to say that.
Guest: 11:04
And then I also think there is a solution, and I think that solution lies in, we have to be very flexible in terms of. Like we have classroom space during the weekend that we can actually open up to people, and we have one artist right now who is paying to use that space. You can get very dirty in there. You know it's a classroom space. But it's for certain kinds of things. It's like everybody's got those kind of, like Liz would need a really big space, you know, but she doesn't need a really big space all the time. So where do we have the spaces that are going to fill those niche needs? And then where do we keep quiet about the spaces that we can use, but they're a little bit. You know we can't advertise.
Kristen: 11:54
And what does it take to get those spaces up to code, the ones that were?
Guest: 11:59
You know, my experience was the cost is astronomical. That's what my experience was and even the city-owned things. They've been looking at the North Branch Library for years, and if you look at what it costs to get that thing up to code. And it isn't just, you know, it has to be handicapped accessible, it has a lot of requirements that are very expensive. So whether we need actually flexibility on the town side to say, well, for certain usage, you know you can blink. I don't know if that's ever going to happen. I mean, is the fire department going to say, well, you don't have egress, that's quite right, but you can do it anyway? I've never heard the fire department say that. Anyway, but I do think there's a continuum of spaces that are out there, that some of them we can talk about quietly and some of them, once we identify a willing owner, to say, well, we've got this space but don't advertise it. Or you can start to episodically use the space here during the weekends and Turtle Studios is a fabulous option. And I'll pass it on right then.
Matt: 13:11
I guess we're mixing in some Q and A in the middle. Is that okay with you?
Kristen: 13:14
Sure, I like it.
Guest 2: 13:14
All right, I'm going to put in a word for Turtle. The space is a wonderful space, but we would rather be in Watertown than in Newton, and we're as close to Newton as Watertown as we can get if we could get rid of McDonald's but. And it is a wonderful space, there's lots of problems with it and the owner of the building has been threatening to kick us out. Well, wait, has been threatening to kick us out because he wanted to turn it into laboratories. He has, fortunately, changed his mind about that. I was waiting for him to change his mind because I was sure a bubble would burst. But the bubble did burst. That means there are more spaces in Watertown that should be able, you know, for temporary use.
Guest 2: 13:57
Turtle is a cooperative studio and people come and go. They don't have their own space, but when you need a big space, you can have a big space. When you need a little space. There's storage. It's available 24 hours a day. Which is some of the places we looked at in Watertown didn't have. It's not accessible. We would like it to be accessible. I mean, it's got problems, but you should come and see what that kind of open community studio looks like.
Kristen: 14:22
I’ve been a couple years ago I went.
Guest 2: 14:26
And we're cheaper than any place else around for studio space, even though we just raised our membership rates, but it's still cheaper. So a couple of, $250 this year, $250. Maybe it's $225. It was $200 for a long, long time, so it's $200 a month. Yeah, but I think it's now $225, maybe $250. It's pretty good.
Matt: 14:55
Yeah, how about outside of Watertown? Are there any successful things that you've looked at as a model that we could base something off of?
Kristen: 15:03
Artist space, no. Rehearsal space, I mean it's the same formula. Empty building put in soundproof walls. Like I said, those have been done. There's a place called Sanctuary in Maynard maybe Maynard. It's an old church and a musician and his wife I think I've got this down have taken the church, turned it into a music venue and surprisingly excellent acoustics. But in the basement there are rehearsal spaces. So that's a great use of a building that I think had been empty for a long time. So that's a success story. And on top of rehearsal spaces and artist spaces dwindling, music venues are closing down too, which is atrocious and sad.
Kristen: 15:42
There's a place called the Cut in Gloucester and it is in the middle of Gloucester. It was an old CVS right in the middle of town with a huge parking lot around it. CVS went out of business. A developer came in and wanted to turn it into a music venue, found a contractor in Somerville who kind of specializes in that sort of thing and they worked together. They made this amazing space and the builder was upset that he wasn't overflowing with money in the first year and he just closed that venue. Just closed it. He put all that money into it and he just closed it after a year. It's like a pair of jeans, with anything else, you got to wear it for a while. Eventually it's going to fit. You find out what works. But he's closed the venue. But he still has bookings. You know Gang of Fours playing in April. It's so sad and it's short-sighted. If you want instant wealth, don't get into the arts game, you know.
Matt: 16:29
So how do we? I know I got to give you a mic so you can drop it.
Guest: 16:41
I'm going to say something really unpopular in this crowd. So I'm going to say something for that poor person who started that space at CVS. You know, people love to think about the arts and they aspire to it and they think, oh, this would be really cool. And then they don't realize how much it costs to actually run a place and hire people to run it. It's not easy. And then you have to have the runway to create the audiences and you have to pay the artists. If you're paying artists who are of the caliber that they're really going to bring people in, you really are going to lose money. And so I'm not trashing this person because I applaud that he actually tried, but it's a tough row and it's a consistently tough row.
Guest: 17:22
Most people who do it, you know you look at Passim, you look at any of these kind of long-time running, they do it for love. You know there's only so much money they can lose, so there's got to be, in the United States we don't have support for the arts. When I first started running this place I was like, uh, how does this work? You know, there's not a revenue stream that makes sense and we're all kind of trying to fit it together to make sense. So it's tough. We're in an area that just does not generate income until you get to the very, very top, and then there's lots of money.
Kristen: 18:00
Well this place, unfortunately, was very promising and because it's far enough away from Boston, Cambridge and other major cities. So there's a rule of thumb that you don't play within 50 miles of your next gig. I used to work in the music business. I was a talent buyer for the Paradise and for Don Law, which then turned into Live Nation. And patience, just takes patience. And a large dowry or investment of some sort. Yeah, yeah.
Matt: 18:24
Yeah, that is something through this podcast that has been enlightening for me is talking to people from the perspectives from the other side too. Like it is tough on, you're right, on the other side too being the owner of a space.
Kristen: 18:36
You can't go into it willy-nilly. I mean any sort of art-based building, or you know.
Matt: 18:42
So what are some other creative, maybe smaller solutions, like I don't know. I'm thinking about, like this new ADU stuff that's coming up with the city, accessory dwelling units. Can those be turned into artist spaces and you know, more small-scale solutions rather than one big solution. Are there any ideas or things that you've come across that come to your mind?
Kristen: 18:59
Gee whiz no.
Guest 2: 19:02
You mean for showing or for making?
Matt: 19:05
I mean I think we're thinking, making first of all and showing. I mean it's obviously a whole ecosystem that we're trying to build up, right.
Kristen: 19:14
Is this the in-law apartment thing?
Matt: 19:16
Oh yes, sorry, the accessory drawing unit is something that the city is working on passing and it's letting people build out on their property of their houses, like a granny flat, in-law suite or something, but it could be a studio space.
Kristen: 19:29
Oh, I wonder what led to this.
Matt: 19:32
He’s involved with housing.
Guest 3: 19:33
I know, I'm involved with Housing for All of Watertown. And the thing that the city is about to consider and work on passing is a separate set of zoning regulations.
Kristen: 19:43
Why?
Guest 3: 19:44
Why, what?
Kristen: 19:45
Like what started this?
Guest 3: 19:46
The state made them.
Kristen: 19:47
Why?
Guest 3: 19:48
Because we don't have enough housing in Massachusetts. We're short of, I don't know 600,000 housing units, and that's why housing is so expensive. Yeah, that's the primary driver. There's other things too. So this new set of zoning regulations will be different than standard regulations, and something you could do is talk to the city council and the zoning board and talk to them about what you would need to be in place to have an ADU also operate as, potentially, an art space for someone.
Guest 3: 20:15
Like if I wanted to rent out an ADU as an art space, that, for instance, would be a commercial use, not a residential use, and most of Watertown does not allow commercial use, and so a special carve-out would need to be made. And now is definitely the time to do that, because they're about to start community conversations about ADU zoning and they're about to start really crafting this set of regulations, and I think this is a perfect use case for ADUs, in addition to the informal economy of people just sharing. I live in the East End and there's so many cinder block garages that just aren't being used by anyone, that could totally be an informal community art space. As long as you didn't make anyone pay for it, as long as it was just informal economy, come and use it as you want to. I think there would be very little pushback, unless there were unsafe uses or some kind of like external community complaints. But a painter or a small scale sculpture and things like that, I think you could do that in any of these cinder block garages that are mostly empty around the east end, I think they're less common in other parts of Watertown.
Kristen: 21:21
Oh, very interesting, but it sounds like I would need to own property.
Guest 3: 21:25
Someone would, or someone would need to have a landlord who doesn't care. Which is actually more common, much more common. And especially with these duplexes, oftentimes it is a family who grew up in the house who still owns it and is still renting it. So I've lived in two places like that in Watertown where there was a family who owned it and the kids grew up there, they inherited the home and now they rent it out. And they would definitely not, the one I'm thinking of didn't have a good space for this, but they were very low key about the use. They're very community oriented people that they charged way under market because they didn't have a big, high interest loan or mortgage. So I think there are great opportunities like that. But the ADU opportunity I think is really there. In addition to, I think, lab spaces that are already built.
Guest 3: 22:10
They are up to code and they are not being used. So the messiness is definitely an issue, but they are well-ventilated, high-ceiling, often big window spaces that are not being used because the market has cratered and actually, given the outlook of the federal government funding, I think the market's going to get much worse. I think actually the whole, particularly startup economy is going to be really badly hit by these NIH cuts. So I think we have an opportunity. I mean the best thing for the arts is a bad economy. Right? New York City was cool because it was poor. You know, Boston, Somerville was cool because it was poor. Austin was cool because it was poor. And now these places are full of people who aren't poor and the housing is expensive and things like that. But yeah, I mean it is an interesting opportunity opening up, as sad as it all is.
Guest 4: 23:00
I'm just going to throw in here that the next community meeting about ADUs is this Monday. So if you want to be part of that conversation, this is one of the best opportunities.
Kristen: 23:13
So in lieu of me making art and ranting about lack of music and artists' working spaces, I've been volunteering, being an advocate for art. You know, through the Arts Market and Porchfest and the Cultural District. Because of the political climate, I have friends who are watching too much news, wringing their hands and clutching their pearls. I keep telling them, go out and do something in your community. That'll help you feel more engaged with other people, in volunteering, whether you're in a soup kitchen, you're helping the arts market. Something like that will make you feel better.
Kristen: 23:54
And I think I'm preaching to the choir here. And I've been telling my friends that who aren't blinking at me quietly anymore when I tell them this. They're actually doing things and getting out and volunteering and it is, well, I can't help myself, but it does make me feel good that I'm doing something in the community. And for a couple of my friends who've started volunteering, they're surprised at how good they feel in volunteering and helping out. Whether you know, in my case I'm doing it because I have no creative place to do things, so my creativeness comes from organizing. I think, for others, even if you're not artistic and looking for a way to express yourself, getting involved in volunteering helps you mentally, it helps our society, our civilization. And that's yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
Matt: 24:40
Yeah, yeah, and obviously getting together like we are right now, like you just learned some things from having these people in a room that you wouldn’t have by searching online for how to make creative art spaces. This was way more of an extensive conversation we got from that.
Kristen: 24:53
I'll be talking to other people later.
Guest: 24:57
I just have one more observation, and I loved what you said about the. Is it ADU? Is that the? That's the acronym. The weird thing about the arts that I've found, I did not start as an arts administrator, in my career is the continuum through the informal network, which is really where arts begin and actually where everything begins. Every business started in somebody's garage, you know, or in somebody's spare room. It's that kind of flexibility that you need in that informal network is essential to really creating art. You have to have that kind of flexibility of, gee, I'm going to go this way, you have to be able to follow your nose. Then, when you get into the government, you know, or zoning codes, or all of those, then a whole set of rules kind of comes clomping down on the kind of insurance you need and fire codes, and blah, blah, blah, blah blah. So the idea that you should have the government do it all is really a disaster, but the richness of community, kind of back to what you're saying. I just want to reinforce how important that is. It's these informal networks that, oh, gee, so-and-so would really like their garage to be something more alive, or, you know, that kind of informal stuff is where it's all going to happen. I mean, we can seed it from places like this and we can support it, but it's going to start someplace else. And we need both of those to be really, really healthy.
Guest: 26:31
I was trying to figure out is there a better way? Should we start, you know, should a city do something different? When we went to visit New Orleans, I thought New Orleans must be doing something on a city level that is so fabulous that they support this amazing music culture. And they don't. They put out a hat. That's how they support their musicians. It's incredible to me. I thought, how do all these people just keep doing this, you know, with a hat? And they do because it's a place where, it's such a generative place and that's what I wish for Watertown. That we continue to be this generative place even though we're starting to get really gentrified. The problem with gentrification is you stop being generative, and that's our challenge, I think. Anyway, sorry, I just had to say that.
Kristen: 27:22
Like you were saying. I mean, Somerville went from being a poor place to a place that people who were getting chased out of Cambridge and Boston because of rents, they were going to Somerville. Or you know my husband's family, they had been in Somerville since the 70s and when it was Slumerville. And then all the artists come in and just like New York and they start doing cool things. But now it's getting gentrified in places like Sally O'Brien's which has music nearly every night of the week, because the condos went in across the street they can't have music past 11 o'clock. But you moved into the city because it was cool. Now you want to squelch it because you know you can't play your video games, you're being annoyed by your neighbor. I know, I know, not ranting, not ranting.
Guest 4: 28:03
For all that, not everything should come from the government. I'm just going to mention a few things that are happening. So in 2022, very soon after the Public Arts and Culture Committee and Public Arts and Culture Planner, that's me, came on board for Watertown, we put out an artist workspace survey. And I think several of you were a part of this and got just under 100 responses from artists who live or work in Watertown about what they need for artist workspace. We created a final report out of that that we have been circulating to developers who come into the city. We've had several who have considered building workspace. Those projects that we're considering it are all stalled because of the bubble burst, unfortunately. We do have one space that is building a new gallery space, which is pretty exciting.
Guest 4: 28:45
We'll talk about it. And through that work we were looking at the North Branch Library, we still are as a potential mixed function of community space and art space. And we've been exploring through my office the idea of artists in residence for the city. But again, we don't have a space to stick them right now, but we'd love to get that program rolling in the next couple of years. All is a way to kind of generate from the city, saying that at this level we're very supportive of artists and we want them to be able to live and work here. Things that we have talked about that haven't really gone anywhere so far are artists live work spaces. It's really hard, especially when there's a housing shortage, to convince people that that's a good idea. But the Watertown Square area redevelopment is a really great opportunity to actually push some zoning change for the benefit of artists, particularly, because it directly overlaps with our new Watertown Cultural District outline, so that's something that we are working towards.
Kristen: 29:33
So I need to go to more town meetings. And rant there, I'll bring my ranting to the man.
Guest 4: 29:41
But I also have two things that are kind of exciting that are happening at a state level. The Metropolitan Area Planning Council, which is a regional planning council for the greater Boston area, has been working with Somerville, Cambridge, and one other town. But they've been working because of all the artist studios that shut down right at the beginning of the pandemic and since, they've been working towards just a report that says here's the state of things for artist workspace, here's some recommendations how we fix this. And Mass Creative, if you've heard of this organization, has taken up that call. They're trying to push through legislation that will help hopefully inform and preserve artist workspace going forward at a state level. So this is some stuff that you can get behind at different levels in the state.
Kristen: 30:20
All right, thank you. Wow.
Matt: 30:22
Yeah, but I just want to end our recording here. The last thing I just want to add real quick is as frustrating as it is, let's be open-minded to working with anybody and collaborating with this right.
Kristen: 30:32
Absolutely. It's a punk rock, diy, vein, feeling atmosphere that I'm happy to continue forth.
Matt: 30:43
Great. Well we'll split out and we'll keep talking about this, but for the podcast purposes, thank you, Kristen, for sharing this topic and getting us all started about this and thank you everyone here for coming out. So that's it for my conversation with Kristen. If you liked that conversation and you want to come out to a Creative Chat event yourself, we've got a couple more this season before we take a short break for the summer. So there's one coming up in May, on May 16th Friday morning with Julie Fei-Fan Balzer. Can find out more information at littlelocalconversations.com. And you can also head over to the website for more episodes and events coming up, sign up for the newsletter I send out once a week, and if you want to help support the podcast, there's a support local conversation button on the website.
Matt: 31:18
All right, and just a few things to wrap up here. I want to give a thank you to podcast sponsor Arsenal Financial. They're a financial planning business here in Watertown that's owned by Doug Orifice, who is a committed community member. Can listen to our Watertown trivia episode we did to celebrate the sponsorship and learn some facts about Watertown. And if you need some financial planning help, head on over to arsenalfinancial.com. I also want to give a shout out to the Watertown Cultural Council who has given me a grant this year, so I want to give them appropriate credit, which is this program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency, which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency. Find out more about them at watertownculturalcouncil.org and massculturalcouncil.org.
Matt: 31:56
And I also want to give a shout out to a couple of promotional partners. The Watertown Business Coalition, which is a non-profit organization here in Watertown, bringing businesses and people together to help strengthen the community. Check them out at watertownbusinesscoalition.com. And I want to give a thanks to Watertown News, which is a Watertown-focused online newspaper. Check them out at watertownmanews.com. So that's it. Until next time, take care.
